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Jaminshick
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:29 pm    Post subject: Shatter Questions. Reply with quote

So I just want to verify some things about shatter because the write-up in the rule book is rather short.

The Exact wording is:
Quote:
A target Standard Crafted item is broken. Its Phys Rep may not be used and its Item Tag must be destroyed. Master Crafted
items are unaffected by this spell. If used against another character, the caster must specify an item on the character to be destroyed in
the Spell Call.


So What I understand from this is the following.

If I cast shatter, with the sig call "I call forth the Shatter" on a standard crafted shield (Touch or Packet the item), it breaks and you can't stop it.

IF I cast shatter, with the sig call"I call forth the Shatter" on a person holding a shield (Touch or Packet the person), it is a flub.

IF i cast shatter, with the sig call "I call forth the Shatter Shield" on a person holding a shield (Touch or packet the person), they can either resist with a nullify or avoid with a dodge.

IF i cast shatter, with the sig call "I call forth the Shatter" on a shield being held by a person (touch or packet the shield), they can only dodge.


Essentially it being that you only need to specify the object when you hit the person, and when you hit the person they are the target, meaning they can use a nullify.
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Dan H
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a good answer to this would be the following.

Quote:
Nullify

Description: This Spell makes the target temporarily resistant to other spells.
System: The target may use this Spell as a Resistance Countermeasure against one other Spell (but not Invocation) that targets them. This Spell only protects the target, not the target's possessions so it will not stop the Spell Shatter or other Spells of that nature. It may be used to prevent Spells that affect the target’s claws should they have them, as claws are considered part of their person (See the Racial Ability Claws). Nullify works against Spells regardless of their source, whether they be cast from Vala, from a Spell Scroll, triggered by a Potion, or stored in a Magic Item.
Only one instance of this Spell may be active on a character at a time. If an additional instance is cast on the character while the first is present, the character may choose which one is active. The other either stops conveying effect, or does not take effect.

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Skywind
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So yah you can use it to brake peoples standerd crafted things and there is nothing they can do about it but dodge or Ageis
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Josh
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or reflect:

Quote:
This skill is a Redirection Countermeasure against any Spell, Spell Mantle, or Invocation successfully hitting the


(note, not targeting, hitting)


Or reprisal:

Quote:
When the character, or an item on the character’s person, is hit by any targeted Effect, with the exception of Rituals and Racial Abilities, they may redirect the effect to another character.



So basically just not nullify. That said, its probably mechanically easier if Nullify didn't have that exception. It does, because barrier does against physical attacks targeting items.




I could also be a lot more consistent in the terminology used. Reflect and Riposte should largely have the same terminology. For that matter, Reprisal probably should as well, even if it would nominally remove the ability to target a character not otherwise involved in the exchange (which would also simplify the resolution quite a bit)
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Jaminshick
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next question then

Shatter and Alchemy/Spell Potions/Spell Scrolls/ Invocation Scrolls.

Let's say I want to shatter someone's disintigration scroll. Is the call "I call forth the Shatter Invocation Scroll" or "I call forth the shatter Disintegration scroll"

And what if they have multiple. Does that mean they get to choose?
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Josh
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shatter should probably only shatter what is being held in the hand or being worn, and mostly what has kept it working is that people gravitate towards that usage
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Skywind
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No I think you can name someting and if they dont have the thing you name then there is no valid targit and the spell fizzles... Its a gamble but i like it.
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wytenyte
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you target objects you can't see or physically hit (because they are under clothing or in a closed bag?)

Can you target items inside a warded container?
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Phiri
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Can you target objects you can't see or physically hit (because they are under clothing or in a closed bag?)


The way I've heard it explained is that if you hit a player with a "-Shatter Dagger", it would break their dagger even if it was in their bag because you were targeting the player, not the item.

As per the rules on Shatter:

-If the target is an item:
Quote:
A target Standard Crafted item is broken.


-If the target is a person:
Quote:
If used against another character, the caster must specify an item on the character to be destroyed in the Spell Call.


Being a new player, I feel that the 'targeting a person' arose for ease of use. It's much easier to hit a Kobold with a packet than their sword. This does create the above problem Shattering items you can't physically target.

I agree with
Quote:
Shatter should probably only shatter what is being held in the hand or being worn
because it allows for quality of use, while still targeting items that can be reasonably targeted.


It would also prevent the following situation:

The saboteur, being unable to Shatter all of the Invocation Scrolls contained in a Warded Exotic Material chest, proceeds to pick up the chest and rapidly cast Shatter on themselves to their heart's content

-----

Also adding to the question trail: Can Shatter be used against Coins & Gems?
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Josh
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Also adding to the question trail: Can Shatter be used against Coins & Gems?


Coins and gems are essentially unbreakable, as they do not have any tag/scrolls/paper object that can be destroyed to track their loss


For the other questions - we are going to be revisiting Shatter for January's rulebook release. Given that these questions essentially haven't come up (despite being problematic) for a long time, could people just not bring them up for two more months?
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